Slow Down Young Man

Coonhound Advisor

May 9, 2017

Source: Allen Gingerich

As published in Coonhound Bloodlines April 2017

Dog Does Not Move Up as Result of Another Dog Leaving Tree

Q: I was on a hunt recently where we had this scenario. Dogs A and B were declared treed, in that order. When we arrived at the tree, Dog A was seen off the tree about 30 yards just standing there looking at us. The judge minused Dog A 125 but then moved Dog B up to first tree. Was this correct?

A: The only time you move dogs up on tree (tree positions) is if, or when, it becomes obvious you have a split tree situation. Keep in mind that, unless the tree is closed, a judge should never award split tree points unless, or not until, it is obvious, to the judge: 1) at the time the call was taken; or 2) when it becomes obvious or evident. That was not the case here. Dog A is considered to have left the tree, but it doesnt change the fact that Dog A had first tree, on the tree being scored. Therefore, Dog B cannot be given credit for a first tree. Had Dog A been split treed nearby you would have moved Dog B up to first tree, but not under the scenario described. Dog B should have remained on the scorecard with 75 tree points and scored accordingly. The only way Dog B would have been eligible for first tree is if Dog A would have been minused for leaving before Dog B was declared treed.

Questions and Appeals for Final Four Hunt-Off to Determine Overall Winner

Reminder: Any club or association having a hunt-off to determine an overall winner does so by their own designated rules. Any scoring discrepancies or questions that may arise are resolved by the event officials. There is not an applicable appeal process that is forwarded to UKC for resolution such as the one for the licensed portion of the event. However, a Code of Conduct applies and remains in place for any hunt-off just as it would for a spectator on the grounds on the day of the event.

Majority Vote Required to Call Time & Dog Declared Treed Before Time is Called

Q: This is a two-part question. During a recent hunt, the hunting judge stated that, according to his telemetry system, his dog was getting close to a road. The judge immediately called time out in the hunt. I questioned the call, suggesting it needed to go to a vote on whether or not to call time out. My reasoning was that the road in question, that I as the guide knew well, was an old dirt road that gets very little to no traffic. The dog was in no danger at all, in my opinion. The judge stated that it was his decision as the judge and that he had that authority without a majority vote, given the dog was close to a road.

Secondly, my dog was declared treed before time out was called, but the judge said we could not score my dog because time out had been called. He gave us all one hour to handle our dogs and regroup at the trucks. Im still fairly new to nite hunts so I was not sure how this should have been handled other than my interpretation of the time out rule suggests that it should be a majority vote to be able to call time out. When I told my buddy about this situation, he told me that the judge was wrong on being able to call time out on his own. He also told me that my dog should have been scored because I had him treed before time was called. Please advise on both accounts.

A: Rule 7 (Time Outs) states; {Judge or majority of cast if hunting Judge is used, may call time out in accordance with the following:} What follows are several different items that the cast may call time out for. The rules allow time out to be called for dogs getting with another group of dogs, dogs trailing out of hearing in different directions, dogs getting on highway, posted land or trail into a place where there is danger to dogs or hunters, and a few other items.

While the rules may allow the cast to call time out for any of those items, it clearly states that it takes a majority of the cast to do so. A hunting Judge does not have the authority to call time out on their own, as you described happened. This rule is designed to poll the whole cast as to whether or not the situation meets the criteria of those items that time out may be called for; not just one individuals opinion.

While the rule may not always work as designed, such as handlers voting only to benefit their dog, a solid judge is usually able to recognize that and remind everyone that its important to be fair about the situation. The point is, if a dog is headed towards potential danger, then by all means be considerate and vote accordingly even if it might not be in your dogs best interest to do so. But if its a situation where someone is being a little unreasonable, then the majority vote will usually eliminate that problem. Notice the word used in the rules is highway and not road. Why that is would only be speculation. Nevertheless, most hunters arent too worried about an old dirt road being a danger to dogs.

Your friend is correct. Your dog should have been scored on his tree. A sentence in Rule 11 (a), page 58, confirms that. It states {Dogs declared treed within hunting time are eligible for scoring.} This is meant to include even those dogs who were declared treed before time out was called. I hope this was not a matter of the judge taking advantage of a handler who didnt know for sure. If so, shame, shame, shame. If not, maybe he will read this and do it right the next time. I think its fair to make that comment because its one that a judge should be very well versed on before they start judging casts.

Next question. What can a handler do if the judge does not allow a dog to be scored under this specific circumstance? First, reference the rule mentioned above and ask for a cast vote. If the vote does not favor the rule, then ask any of the other handlers to go with you to score your dog. If everyone refuses to go with you, ask to put a question mark on the scorecard. Go score your dog by yourself. After the hunt, allow the Master of Hounds to make the ruling. If the Master of Hounds doesnt rule in favor of allowing the dog to be scored, even if you did so by yourself, then follow the correct procedures and request a panel. If that panel still does not get it right, pay the fee and request an Appeal Form. Understand, that in order for the appeal to be ruled in your favor, you must have followed all the required procedures and that you made every effort to get the handlers to go with you to score your tree. If you did all these things, and the handlers did in fact refuse to go with you, then I promise you, the ruling will be overturned by UKC and youll get your Appeal Fee refunded. It is UKCs position that it is more than fair to allow a handler to score a dog by themselves than it is to not score an eligible dog for the simple reason that everyone refused to score the dog. This is not intended for handlers to excuse themselves from scoring trees when its inconvenient to them. Any such issues are dealt with accordingly and justly.

Slow Down Young Man!

An interesting discussion recently with an elderly individual whos been hunting UKC nite hunts since before most of our mothers were still wiping the slobber off our chins, turned into the topic of racing to the tree. He stressed how discouraging it is that many of the younger guys tend to want to run to the tree with no regard or respect for an older handler who is no longer able to hoof it as quickly as some of the younger handlers.

Rule 9 (c) clearly states that a judge must maintain a pace attainable by all members of the cast. UKC maintains that the judge, whether hunting or non-hunting, is responsible in seeing that this rule is followed. Ignoring this rule is not an option. The judge of the cast may need to remind handlers of this rule should they get a little too anxious to get to the trees.

The same rule (Rule 9 ) also states that the judge is the first to arrive at the tree. This means that handlers should be with or behind the judge going into the trees and not in front of. Which leads me to my next point; judges, youre the one in control and its your sole responsibility to see that these rules are followed. If you have handlers disregarding your reminders, then theres no alternative but to end their night.

Further, UKC encourages participants of all ages enter their events. Its great to see the older guys who are still physically able to hunt their hounds. Many of them have been a part of this sport for a long time and deserve a little respect when it comes to their physical abilities. One day the younger guys will be older and their physical abilities will start to deteriorate as well. Trust that you would want the same respect from your cast mates. UKC encourages judges to understand the importance of this topic and dont disrespect the older or less physical members in your cast. In other words, slow down a bit, young man!