Rule Change Proposals and Procedures, Other Coonhound News

Coonhound Advisor

August 19, 2016

Source: Allen Gingerich

As published in July 2016 Coonhound Bloodlines

Deleting Points for Off Game in a Live Trap
Q: I am sure that I am not the first to contact you about your answer to Mr. Thompson in your Advisor column (May 2016). What are you going to do about Rule 6(g) with only one exception, which is 5(b)? Your ruling will open a big can of worms. Cheaters will want points deleted for barking at livestock in a locked pen, or when dogs tree on a cage of rabbits in someones backyard. As a Master of Hounds, I do not feel that I can go along with your answer unless you can show me more than your answer. Off game is off game no matter where you find it. RN, Indiana

A: We appreciate your concern and response. Actually, you are the first to respond in regards to that topic published in the May Issue. Regardless, there may very well be others that read it and thought the same.

The topic in question was Off Game in a Live Trap, specifically, how to score dogs found treed any game that is caught in a live trap. UKCs position is to delete the points, which is what we noted in that article. You referenced Rule 6(g), which relates to scratching dogs for running, treeing or molesting off game. And further, that there is only one exception to that rule, which is in the case where dogs come into an off game tree after the judge arrives (5b). I cant debate whether or not UKC has ever stated that 5(b) is THE only exception where a dog would not get scratched for coming into an off game tree after the judge arrived. If so, it would obviously contradict any such statement because off game caught in a live trap would also be included in any such exceptions.
You mentioned being concerned that by deleting points for trapped off game, it would open a can of worms for cheaters wanting to now delete points for baying on livestock locked in a pen, etc. Having grown up on a farm and having been around farm animals all my life, comparing live traps to penned-up livestock is a stretch in my mind. If we did allow for dogs to score on trapped game, would that not open the door for a cheater to easily influence a cast? It certainly would be very easy for anyone to set up trapped possums to test and get rid of the competition. The same would be true for setting up trapped coon to score on when you need it. Therein lies UKCs position of the lesser evil and a good reason to not allow scoring on trapped game.

Agreed to Split Tree Points. One Dog on Separate Tree.

Q: In a four-dog cast, all dogs are struck and they trail towards the top of a big hill. Its highly likely that they will trail out of hearing if they drop over the hill, so the cast agrees to walk to the top of the hill, and any dog that is treed when they get there will get split tree points. Once we arrived at the top of the hill and stopped to listen, we identified all four dogs to be treed, so we split the tree points four ways, which gave each dog 68 tree points. When we arrived at the tree, we discovered that Dog D is split treed from the other three. Should Dog D move up to first tree, or is that dog bound by the original agreement to split tree points?

A: The fact that everyone agreed to split tree points does not bind you from moving any dog up in position, if one or more is found to be on a separate tree when you arrive. Think of tree points as position points. When you got to the top of the hill, the dogs were all treeing and you could not determine which dog took which position (1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th), so you split those four positions, and you correctly gave each dog 68 tree points.

When you arrived, you found that Dog D is treed separate from Dogs A, B and C, so now you have three dogs taking three positions on one tree and one dog taking one position on a separate tree. This does, in fact, require you to make a change on the scorecard to reflect the positions awarded on each of the two trees. That said, change the tree points for Dogs A, B and C to reflect three split positions of 83 1/3. Dog D obviously has no positions to split with any of the others, so you would change Dog Ds tree points to 125.
Split Treed. Handled. Left Tree.

Q: In a three-dog cast, Dog A opened and was called struck and treed, and shut out Dogs B and C. Both B and C then also opened and Dog B treed with Dog A. My gyp, Dog C, trailed on deeper approximately 75 yards and fell treed. After I declared her treed, the judge told me to go handle her and then come back to their tree to score it. I found my gyp treed on a little snag and, even without a light on it, I could easily see the coon hanging on the side of the snag about eight feet from the ground. My gyp could obviously see the coon as well. I tied her to a little sapling next to the snag she was treed on and then headed back to score Dogs A and B.

We quickly found that the first tree was a den tree, but we kept looking for a coon on the outside. We were all blowing our squallers on this tree when all of a sudden I hear my gyp trailing down through the woods again. I walked over to the judge and got his attention on what she was doing. She trailed out to the edge of the woods, which was approximately another 75 to 100 yards from where she had been tied, and fell treed again. I asked him what I should do. He said she is minused for leaving, and Ill need to tree her again, so thats what I did. After scoring the den tree (no coon seen), we headed over to my gyps tree. She had the lead strap still snapped to her collar. Obviously, she had stripped the loop of her lead strap off the end of the sapling she was tied to. We shined the tree and found the coon right away. After scoring the tree, we called time out. On the way out I took the judge and the other handler by the snag, where she had originally been treed. No coon there anymore. We all agreed that the coon probably bailed when we started squalling on that first den tree. Regardless, it did not make a difference in the outcome of the cast winner, but, for future reference, Im wondering if we scored this situation correctly.

A: The key thing to remember is that minus points are awarded to any dog that is declared treed if they leave that tree. Already handled and tied or not, there are no exceptions. It makes sense that the coon likely bailed from that snag as you said, but even then it does not matter. The dog left that tree and should be minused those tree points. When considering the big picture, its the lesser evil to not allow exceptions. Good call on the part of the judge, and youll probably look for a better anchor to tie your dog to from here on out. In this case, however, it was actually a good break for your gyp. Otherwise, she would likely have been left with both strike and tree points minus on a slick snag.

Rule Change Proposals and Procedures

Q: The hunters in our area would like to know how the procedure works for rules changes, and if they can somehow become involved with proposals.

A: In the past, rule changes were considered every two years. That has recently been changed to now be every three years. The year 2017 will be a rules change year, so proposals are currently being considered for it. Hunters can become involved by submitting a proposal to their UKC Chartered Breed Association that they are a member of. Each breed association then considers the proposals and, if approved, submits them to UKC to be placed on the official ballot. The UKC Chartered Breed Associations (seven in total) must submit their proposals to UKC no later than August 1. The procedures and timelines for considering proposals submitted by nite hunt enthusiasts are determined by each specific breed association. Therefore, your hunters would need to contact their breed association to find out when they are accepting proposals.

Those proposals received from all the breed associations by the deadline go on an official ballot. The ballot is then mailed out to each one of the seven chartered associations. Those proposals on the ballot are voted on at Autumn Oaks by a committee that is made up of two representatives of each association. The Rules Committee is chaired by a UKC representative to discuss any proposal, as needed, but who is not otherwise involved in the voting process. Those two representatives of each association cast one vote, on behalf of their association, for each proposal on the ballot. It takes a majority of yes votes (4) to pass any proposal on the ballot.

This year, the September Issue of COONHOUND BLOODLINES will have those proposals that are on the official ballot published in this very column. The October issue will then have the results of the voting for each proposal. The November and December issues will then be dedicated to clarification purposes of those that did pass. Those proposals that did pass will go into effect on January 1, 2017.